Beyond The Balance Sheet: Building Wealth and Worth with Carla Titus

Josh St. Laurent: Welcome to the Wealth in Yourself Podcast, a show dedicated to helping you master the complex subject of money by simplifying it through stories and actionable advice. I'm Josh St. Laurent and this is Wealth in Yourself. Welcome to the Wealth in Yourself Podcast where we help people to design their ideal life and take control of their time and money. I'm your host, Josh St. Laurent. Today, we're joined by Carla Titus. Carla is the founder and CEO of Wealth and Worth Within and acts as a fractional CFO who provides financial consulting and advisory services to business owners. She is a finance expert with over 16 years of combined corporate financial planning, analysis, strategy, and established business consulting experience. Her priorities for their clients range from growing profits, having cash in the bank and paying themselves well so they can build personal wealth. Carla, welcome. Glad you're here. Carla Titus: Thanks so much for having me. So excited for our conversation. Can't wait to share with your audience some good nuggets that they can take with them. Josh St. Laurent: Absolutely. Likewise, yeah. We had such a good conversation a couple of weeks back now. So I've been really looking forward to this and I like to just kick these off with for anyone listening who isn't familiar with you and your work. What do you want them to know about what you do? Carla Titus: Yeah. Often we get this question. It's a fractional CFO. And I think not a lot of people are exposed to this world and I live and breathe this. So obviously it's hard for me to say, what do you mean? You don't know what a CFO is, but we love to take the time to explain to our, you know, potential clients or people that maybe have an encounter, this function in their business yet or I need for it. Carla Titus: I start with the roles that they're familiar with. I say you have a bookkeeper probably doing your books, helping you categorize things reconcile, providing you financial statements and you have an account in this handling the tax side. Do you have a financial planner on your corner handling your personal side of financial planning? But who's handling your business financial planning? And that's where the role of a CFO really comes into play to start looking forward on what are the things you want to achieve? How do we go about achieving them, creating an action plan for that so that we can make those goals a reality, not just saying, here's your projection. Good luck. It's a, here's your projection and here's what we will encounter along the way as issues, problems and things that we will solve together. So we partner to then help the decision maker, the CEO or business owner to get the data that they need to make better financial decisions in their business. Carla Titus: Also start to think about risk and opportunities. What do we want to achieve and how do we go about doing it and keeping them accountable to achieving those goals and making progress? It's really easy for them to have questions like can I afford to hire someone? Can I sell my business? Can I buy the house I want because the business is doing well, profit wise, but how much profit do you need for that? And financing their lives through their business is a big aspect of what we do and take into consideration when helping clients. So we serve as that function of making sure that we have some forward looking end of business, which is not currently happening if you just have a book you'd be in an accounting team. Josh St. Laurent: I love that. I love that answer. And I want to get into like what you do specifically. But before we go there for someone listening who says or is thinking that to themselves, you know, wow, this is great. When does someone actually know like what signs should they be keeping an IO for in their own business to say, you know what? I should start looking for a fractional CFO. Carla Titus: Yeah, they're not getting answers to their money questions today with their current team. So they're saying, why is my bookie per telling me what to do with my numbers or going through the PNL with me and answering my questions there? Maybe thinking about, hey, why is tax tax tax tax tax tax tax tax tax tax tax tax tax time always a surprise. Why do I get surprised with a tax bill? They're not actively planning their tax situation because they don't really know where they're going to end their year ad. Carla Titus: They don't really have the financial goals. Therefore their accounting can't help them strategize around tax savings and minimizing that legally for what they need to pay. They're asking questions like, can I afford to hire this person? And they have no idea how to even look at their numbers to tell them whether or not they can't afford to do so. They're also starting to wonder, could this be better? I'm growing. I need some help. They're going inside of control. I don't know where to start. And they're lacking financial processes, maybe in their company. They're just doing things and winging in. And they're like, you knows time to get some structure in place and make sure that we have the right things in place to help support the business and the future we want to see. Josh St. Laurent: Yes, definitely. And so for someone who is listening who is like, wow, I can really use a fractional CFI. I have some of these questions. I think part of that appeal is, hey, I'm not hiring another full time employee for example. So my question for you that I'm thinking through is like, how do you fit into that larger team that they already have? Do you see yourself replacing like the bookkeeper in the CPA or is it more like we work in conjunction with your existing team to sort of enhance what you're already doing? Carla Titus: Yeah, fantastic question. And we get this a lot too. We are not here to replace anyone. We're here to collaborate and add a third leg to the stool that you already have, which is strong. You have a strong foundation with a bookkeeper in place in the accounting team. We're not here to run your payroll, do your taxes or do your books. Do we do offer that service around bookkeeping? It's really intended to work with existing team in place. We don't want this rub what's happening. We just want to complement an augment with a different level of expertise as we're planning that forward piece of the business that maybe doesn't exist today. We leverage the work of your bookkeeper and your accountant to be able to support that. So they're an integral part. Carla Titus: What ends up happening often is we come in and we start working with the teams and talk to the bookkeeping team or the accounting team. And maybe we find that there's a gap in skill set or something that's missing and we love to coach and guide the bookkeeping team to just review data or structure data that way we need to see for decision making as we're making sense of what's happening in the business and we see how things are being tracked. We might have suggestions and advice. We also love to continue to develop the bookkeeping team because it could be fantastic. If they had a little guidance, maybe they just don't know. And so we're not all about just coming in and replacing everyone. And we do have the ability to bring in an experienced bookkeeper. If your bookkeeper just maybe doesn't have the skills that are expertise and maybe you've been considering moving on, but you didn't know where to go. We kind of bring it all in one place and can do the CFO and the MIT team can do the bookkeeping which then becomes, you know, a different level support. But still, if you don't bring the bookkeeping week is still coming in as a fraction of CFO, which means you're not hiring a full-time position. You don't need a full-time position. There's not enough scope to have a full-time CFO in your firm and you most likely won't be able to afford one anyways. Carla Titus: So we come in at the fractional rule to support just enough and make sure that we are helping you make progress without the cost. Josh St. Laurent: As a CFP, I'm over here nodding because I know the power of working with the team and developing the bookkeeping team, especially if it's specific to your industry and what you do. Can you share any success stories as far as maybe, you know, the journey that a client came through, hey, they came to me and these are sort of the issues they had a year later. These are all the things we worked through and here's where they're at now. I would love to hear. Carla Titus: Yeah, so when we onboard a client, the first thing we do is we work through setting some goals for the year. If they haven't already done that, we will start there because we have to get really clear what are we trying to achieve first? Out of that conversation comes a lot of priorities as you know, and we might have a need to fix them all all at once, but we have to also pace ourselves as you know, we can't just, you know, come in and overhaul everything. We would love to, but we just, you know, we have to be able to prioritize. So we work with a client to prioritize the top two or three things we need to accomplish. It could be financial processes. It could be like of clarity on their data. It could be maybe the data is not, you know, well tracked or we don't have what we need in order to be able to do this. So we start to tackle one of those things at a time. Maybe it's a payroll issue or process they created that they kind of made up and they have no idea if it's good, efficient, but they know that it's a pain point. Carla Titus: So we want to solve it. And we start to evaluate by priority. It is most urgent and what's important for the business to be able to solve first before we move forward. So we become really strategic about where we put our focus and it's all driven by obviously the needs of the client, the company, the stage, the growth that they're going for, but also making sure that we bring in our expertise on what we know when we fix this, then this 10 things also are resolved. So we might just want to start with that area of focus. We do an assessment on the books. We do make sure that the foundational data is structured correctly. That we have the right chart of accounts that we provide the right oversight there. Once we're passed that, then we can get into more strategic thinking about where are we investing the money? What is some of the costs that we're seeing and how do we shift that to optimize for the profitability we're trying to see? Maybe it's an issue around the owner's compensation of being high enough to meet their personal wealth building goals. And we want to start focusing on how do we start to shift that to make sure that there's enough room for them. And so every client goes through that process. And a year later, what we see is we have not only pay for ourselves, but we've also grown profits above and beyond what they're paying us to be their fractional see if all. Carla Titus: And as you know, Josh, the numbers don't lie. The PNL is clear. Either you did or you did not. A year later, the PNL looks different. The numbers shifted. The percentage is just got better. And that's how we can tailor our clients. We're now we're doing a good job being their see if all. Of course, not every client's success story. You know, there's people that maybe don't make as much progress as they wanted to. There's obstacles and things that come up. And often we help them deal through them and handle them as we go. Josh St. Laurent: Well, I really like that answer. We talked about sort of what you do for your clients and the success story and the progression that they make, you know, and you getting into the numbers and making sure you have good data to go off of. So I'm curious, the clients that you work with, so you find that a lot of them are wanting to be very, very involved and in the PNL with you and looking at the data. Or is it more so, you know, hey, I don't want to do this anymore. I want to be hands off and sort of hand this over to you or maybe a mix of both. And the reason I ask because as a financial planner, we get a mix, right? There's the people who want to be very involved. And then there's the people who say, I never, ever want to look at this Josh. I trust you. You do it. So I'm curious as, you know, for as a fractional CFO, what kind of business owners do you typically work with? Carla Titus: Yeah. And we definitely have the spectrum just like yourself, Josh, there's some clients that just love to dig into the spreadsheets and want to even do some of the, you know, formulas and things. And we're like, of course, it's always welcome. It's your business. We want you to have what you need and the support at the level you want it. And at the same time, we say the reason you all source this is because you trust us. We're an expert at what we do and we can recommend best ways and best practices, right? I think often we get the kind of clients that shy away from the numbers to be honest. They're like, you know, I'm not good at numbers or I don't like numbers. The numbers don't come natural to me. And what we do is we create a set of tools for them. We find that visually sometimes clients can better see trends and things and we are able to better explain numbers when we put some graphs together. So we actually set up a client CEO dashboard that they're able to review with us every time we meet. It's kind of our baseline and go to where all things come together, all the data, all the trends and all the information that they will need about their business finances. Carla Titus: And that seems to take the overwhelm out of it and also encourage a lot of the people that are not quote unquote, go with numbers to actually want to review the numbers because visually it just becomes more appealing and is easier to maybe spot trends than you would have otherwise. We do that for all of our clients, regardless if they're good at numbers or not or they love numbers or don't love spreadsheets. We still do that in that is part of the accountability. But it's also we consider this a partnership. This is not you delegated them, forget it. This is not good luck to you and then let me know how things are going because the business has to be able to perform financially and you have a stake and that is your business. We're here as consulting advisors to help you improve on it. Josh St. Laurent: Accelerate your path to seeing the results you want to see faster with less pain with less risk. But we're not here flying solo. It is a partnership is the CEO making decisions to see if we're bringing the data to help make better informed decisions. And then together we're brainstorming what we should do, how we should tackle the challenges. And then when the wins come celebrating those together as well because we want things to go well, we want you to see the ROI and the things that we're doing. We're big on that. And also anywhere that we're investing money or making decisions to go after, we're measuring the results of all that and you need to know what's happening with your business. It's not a, you know, here you go. I never want to see it again. We don't let our clients off the hook, but you know, again, the right clients, they love that because they're like, oh, finally, I have someone to work with on this that is not my team because I can't tell them if payroll can be made into wheat and I can't tell my team if we're running out of cash flow and I can now make plans on how to improve on this issues and come out ahead on the other side. Josh St. Laurent: So for someone listening who is thinking about bringing on a fractional CFO, what does that sort of time commitment look like? I'm sure you're available, you know, for emergency type needs, but what is that regular cadence? Is it quarterly meetings or monthly or what typically makes sense for most of the business owners that you work with? Carla Titus: Yeah. And they've been in the level support that they want. We have a few options. Most of our clients meet with us at least twice a month. Some will only meet once a month that are more like maintenance. They're not growing as much. They don't need as much support. You know, we have options and we always say we're just trying to meet our clients needs. We do want to be integrated in the team and a part of the team in order to do that. We need to at least be able to touch basis a couple of times a week. Carla Titus: And as far as like client hours committed to doing this, it's really, you know, heavy on the email back and forth on things that we're solving them. There might be some things we're working in the background for them to do in the analysis and bringing back the key takeaways to our meetings. We try to honor that because we know your busy business owners running, you know, established businesses that take a lot out of you. We're not trying to add to your play, but take things off your plate and then come back to have those meaningful conversations only. And then of course, things happen in a business and there will be those emergency calls where I'm going to get a text or call say, Hey, we need to meet something happen. And we always welcome that we want to be available to our clients to make sure that we're meeting the need when the need comes not a week later when, you know, you already had to figure out how to get through that. Carla Titus: We are there with them. We're playing the game. We're in the field with them passing the ball and then hopefully passing it back. And make sure that things are happening as we're going through the support that we're delivering to them. Josh St. Laurent: So for someone listening who maybe isn't ready yet for a fractional CFO, right? Maybe they're a solopreneur in their first year of business. Is there any tips or tricks that you can tell that sort of business owner to help them get the right systems and processes in place now to set them up for success down the road? Carla Titus: Yeah. You should have a solid financial foundation by having that bookkeeping and accounting team in place. If you're going to, you know, look at your accounting side of the business, make sure that that house, that side of the house is in order to ensure that down the road when you're ready to grow and hire a CFO that that is not a mess. Carla Titus: We find that often that is neglected because it's not sexy. It's not fun until text time and then everybody's like, Oh my God, I didn't do my books for the last 12 months. Don't let that get behind. And if you need to hire help early on to make sure you stay on top of it monthly, do it because there are affordable options out there that helps you stay on top of it. So it's not text time, you know, fire drill every time taxes are not as a price people. It happens every single year. Let's be prepared for that. And just setting those got good habits and discipline at corner going to help you. The other thing I'll say is people that are not ready to hire us on retainer also come to us for the expertise of a one time projections project. So they just want to know for the next 12 months, what should I achieve? Carla Titus: How do I achieve it? And what are some things I need to be aware of? And we developed a plans with alongside them as a one time project, as a one time cause. So if people want to access the expertise, but don't feel like they're ready for a retainer CFO on staff, we understand. And that's why we're able to support them in those different ways. And if nothing else, we can do your books, you are better serve. Your time is better serve elsewhere, like growing your business, doing all the things, managing your employees and such. Then being in quick works or some other software that you don't understand you're frustrated with. And then that's why you never want to do it. So for, you know, a couple hundred dollars, you can also use that and it's pretty seamless because you get your statements. And now you're able to make decisions based on that information. Josh St. Laurent: I love that you have the one off option, you know, for the people who are ready for the retainer yet. So that's a great option to offer business owners. I want to transition a little bit away from the business and just ask you, Carla, how you got into this? Like what's your background? How did this come to be where you're helping business owners as a fractional CFO? Carla Titus: Yeah. So I actually started because my mom is an accountant. So obviously numbers run in the family. And I knew I didn't want to be an accountant, but I knew I love business and I wanted to get into some field. So I got my undergrad and finance and then went to work for corporate for 11 years, doing financial analysis, planning all the way to senior manager, you know, with a team of four delivering for the corporation, all the analysis they need to make decisions. Carla Titus: And I knew that along the way in my career at some point, I realized businesses that were small that, you know, weren't quite small because I still think they're pretty well established businesses, you know, with, you know, one to ten million dollars in business or even larger that are considered quite small have a lot of need for financial expertise and support, but they weren't able to get the access to it. And so I just felt compelled and, you know, I'm very entrepreneur myself. So I was like, oh my god, they need this. I need to provide it to them. And I started to see a need and I started to work with some companies, see some results and, you know, just started growing from there and the need became bigger. So we just brought on another CFO to help support clients and were able to take, you know, the small businesses, give them the tools and expertise and access to the answers to the questions they're not getting today, but still be able to be accessible at a price that's not higher in a full time CFO on to their stuff, which again, they most likely don't need just yet. Carla Titus: And, you know, it will be a while before we hope to work ourselves out of a job that our goal is to come bring in at in house CFO or controller to replace us one day because we did such a good job growing that business. Josh St. Laurent: I love that. I'm curious about your own personal transition. We have a lot of people on the show who were, you know, a decade in corporate America, sometimes longer and then it was like, you know what, I'm starting my own venture. I'm going to, you know, I'm going to be an entrepreneur and kind of follow that path. What was that like for you, that transition? Carla Titus: Yeah, I started doing some consulting while still in my corporate job. I, you know, do nice and weekends, just found it fun. People need help. It just was a good fit. And then when the business was growing, I realized it could provide me the lifestyle I wanted, the freedom, financial freedom of flexibility that I was looking for as I was raising my young family and I thought that that was really important to me at a time. Carla Titus: And I figure why not take a leap? Like worst case, I can always go back to working a job. Well, that hasn't been an effort yet. But, you know, it's been going well and I get to work with amazing business owners that are dreaming big, but then we're making those plans a reality through the financial picture. Because, you know, a lot of businesses go out of business because they lack cash or they are not knowledgeable in this area. And you don't need to go get an MBA to get access to the expertise. We can help you with that instead of you having to do it yourself. And so we just have a big passion and hard for small business owners. And for me, it just worked out that it gave me the flexibility and financial independence that I needed and wanted in my life for this stage of lease. Carla Titus: And at the same time, the impact that I wanted to have in those small businesses that maybe would stay in business longer because they have our help. Josh St. Laurent: Yes, I love that. I resonate so much with what you said. And I love how even our business names are so similar, you know, wealth and worth within versus wealth in yourself. It's that, you know, the message is very similar. So I want to transition to ask a couple of questions, you know, about you personally and like, what wealth means to you? Before I go there, what else have I not asked? What am I missing about fractional CFOs that we really should be talking about that other people are not talking about? Carla Titus: Yeah, I think we're fractional CFO can play a critical role in helping businesses. As I said, that growth stage, I think a lot of times business owners are not prepared. Carla Titus: What happens if your business doubles tomorrow? What happened if your business starts to just grow out of control beyond what you can handle yourself? You have to hire more people faster and they're not prepared because they haven't thought about it and they haven't put a planning place on what happens if. And so a lot of the work we want to be doing with businesses is preparing them for if things go well, what do we do? So they're not shocked by, you know, what's happening and they just reacting, which I think is what's happening with a lot of businesses right now. They're reacting, you know, them doubling and revenue or like having to hire friendically and not finding the help that they need because they never develop a plan and they never thought, wow, one day this could happen to me or I did the right things put in the work and now it's paying off. Carla Titus: And it's paying off a little too fast too soon and they just get overwhelmed and then in that they sabotage their success or potential success they could have if they had had the right help at the right time. And so making sure that you're thinking about this ahead of time that you're putting the plans in place that you have a hiring plan that you know, you know, what goals you're trying to achieve makes it really clear and tangible and easier to follow through because now you know step one through 10, what do I need to do? And I can go do it rather than just wait for it and again, weighing in it, it's a very big concept that we find a lot with our clients. We're just kind of making it up. We don't know. Like someone help please and they're asking and reaching out to maybe the wrong functions in their business. Carla Titus: So just kind of being aware of that and don't let it cut you by surprises, especially if you're starting to do well, what if it goes and takes off? What are you going to do? Josh St. Laurent: Right. It's such a recurring theme in finance, isn't it? Like being proactive versus reactive. I mean, it applies in so many different facets of finance and then that concept of you just don't know what you don't know. I mean, even I'm guilty of that as a business owner. So seeking out that professional help I think is so, so important. So I'm glad you said that. I want to transition to kind of the big three questions we asked towards the end of the show about you personally. And so the first one is what does living a wealthy life look like for you? Carla Titus: For me, it's been a big journey in discovering a little bit more about that, the career or the job when they will make it fulfilling or will be the end of the all. Carla Titus: And I think sometimes in life, as you go through stages, your priority shift. And so I've been very open about discovering what's important to me and when and really truly align in what I'm doing in my life to the values that I have and making sure that I'm living by those values. And it could be creating freedom of time through wealth building by having a business. It could be spending time with family, which is really important to me right now at this stage. It could mean, you know, traveling and seeing the world because of the work I do. And that's, you know, an awesome perk of having this. And none of that would have been possible if I didn't take a chance and risk to do my own thing. Carla Titus: And I found myself one day I was out in a boat with a couple of friends for this retreat. Carla Titus: We took on in Washington. And it was a Monday afternoon. I remember this, because I said to myself, is this my life right now? We went on a charter boat out to like the border with Canada to watch whales. And we were just sitting there watching whales having a great time. And I was like, oh my god, is this my life? Like on a Monday afternoon, this is what I'm doing. I'm not sitting in like a corporate cubicle doing my analysis or why not or presenting in a meeting. And nothing worked with that. I think that served the purpose of my life at that time. And when it no longer was the case doing this aligned better to where I was at and what I was doing. And so I'm always careful about thinking what serves me? How can my business do things for me instead of the other way around, which is I think the trap that we all fall into. Josh St. Laurent: We could work more. We could make more. We could go, go, go, go, and then we turn around and we're like, one life are we actually living? I love that answer. I couldn't have said it better myself that intentionality, right? And you mentioned freedom of time. Like it's hard to achieve that in corporate America. I have that conversation with a lot of clients and a lot of business owners start their business for all those exact reasons that you just said. So I love that. If you could give one message to someone working to gain financial freedom, who isn't there yet, what would it be? Carla Titus: It's called patience and you have to continue to have the discipline. I think that often in society or even in social media, you're sold the idea that you can kid rich quick that you can build wealth in a second by snapping your fingers. Carla Titus: And to be honest, that is farthest from the truth, at least from personal experience and also from experience that other people has shared with me that it takes time and dedication and discipline to invest to be in there for the long game, to not try to pull out of the market when it's down because we all trying to freak out and be like, oh my god, my money is going away. And reminding yourself that we're here for the long game that we're here to build wealth long term, not gay rich quick. And I think people need to just be a little bit more patient, know that they're on the right path, that they will see results, but they will not be tomorrow. And I think that's why so many people are not able to build wealth is because they're trying to chase the next get rich quick scheme that, you know, there's plenty of that out there. Carla Titus: And you just need to know what's true for you. What do you want to invest in and how are you going to stick it out for long term? And then maybe you'll build some wealth. Josh St. Laurent: Yes, yes, absolutely. I'm going to use that clip for certain clients who come to me with the get rich quick schemes to ask me what I think I'm going to send them a video, Carla. If you only had a thousand dollars and you were starting over, what would be the first thing you would do with that money? Carla Titus: Oh, that's such a great question. I would get a website and I would pay for a ticket to conferences and try to maybe pay someone to get me on podcasts or try to start some outreach campaigns with that money. And it could be like just, you know, money to pay myself while I'm doing that myself, it's that marketing side of it, like that sale side of it. Carla Titus: And maybe a course to get better at selling because I think a lot of people just are not natural at that. And it takes a lot of practice to get good at selling. And if you don't know how to sell in your business owner, like that's the number one key to growth. So you got to get better at it. And I would go pursue a business like that's what I would do. And if you maybe are trying to develop a skill up with a course on that skill set to try to learn something faster or a book that would tell me how to learn that skill fast to get good at it and start sharing value so people give me my need exchange for that. Josh St. Laurent: Wow. That was a perfect answer for someone who is listening who says, man, I need to reach out to Carla. Where is the best place for them to track you down? Carla Titus: Yeah, they can check out our website at wealthworthwithin.com. Don't try to say that fast three times is really hard. Make sure you hit the contact button and book a free Q&A call with us. We would love to hear what are you struggling with? How we might be able to help you and support you and meet that need that you're desperately need of help for. And then if you're not ready to hire a CFO which you don't know that everybody is, you can check out our bookkeeping services, same website dashboard keeping. You could also just follow us on our newsletter, sign up on our website for that. And if you want free educational content because we're big on adding value and not asking anything in return for it, you can follow us on our social media at wealthworthwithin. Carla Titus: We would love to engage with you there. Tell us what actions you're taking because of what we're sharing and it's helping your business. We would love to know. Josh St. Laurent: Amazing. And we'll put that in the show notes too. So it's easy for everyone to find. So this has been really fun, Carla. I'm glad that we did this. Thank you for being here. Carla Titus: Yeah. Thanks for having me. I really enjoy our conversation. Josh St. Laurent: Likewise. This has been the Wealth in Yourself podcast where we help people to design their ideal life and take control of their time and money. Our guest today was Carla Titus. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time. Josh St. Laurent: The Wealth in Yourself podcast is hosted by me, Josh St. Loren, an edited and produced by Ray Heycraft. To learn more about how to make your money work for you, visit us at www.WealthInYourself.com and connect with us on all social media at Wealth In Yourself. Josh St. Laurent: This podcast is educational in nature and is not meant to be investment advice. Please do not construe anything said to be advice. In the opinions of the guests, may or may not represent the opinions of Wealth In Yourself. This podcast and the information presented are separate from my employment at Golden Gate University. Still, they are part of my mission to make no cost financial knowledge more accessible. If you like the show, please take a moment to leave us a review. We read all of your feedback and we want to make sure we cover the topics that matter most. If you have a specific subject you'd like us to explore or a guest you'd love to hear interviewed, don't hesitate to shoot us a direct message. And as always, thanks for listening.