Building Trust and Loyalty: The Art of Authentic Communication with Julie Johnson

Josh St. Laurent: Welcome to the Wealth in Yourself Podcast, a show dedicated to helping you master the complex subject of money by simplifying it through stories and actionable advice. I'm Josh St. Laurent and this is Wealth in Yourself. Welcome to the Wealth in Yourself Podcast where we help people to design their ideal life and take control of their time and money. I'm your host, Josh St. Laurent. Today we're joined by Julie Johnson. Julie is a former senior vice president with UBS, SEMA, CFP, and the founder and CEO of XY Communication. Her passion is helping financial professionals increase engagement with existing clients, prospects, and peers by improving their ability to communicate, connect, and build trust and loyalty. Between the great wealth transfer and so many advisors retiring, there's never been a better opportunity to grow your business by positioning yourself as the advisor they want to work with. Others have referred to her as an authority when discussing different generations and genders what they want or need from their financial professionals and within teams what they want and need from each other. Josh St. Laurent: Julie, welcome. Glad you're here. Julie Johnson: Thank you so much, Josh. So excited. We got this done. Josh St. Laurent: Yes, yes. Likewise, I've been looking forward to this. Communication is like one of my favorite topics to talk about for sure. So I'm sure there's plenty of people listening who are familiar with your work, especially with the advisors, right? You're really well known in that community. But for anyone listening who isn't familiar with you, what do you want them to know about you and the work that you do? Julie Johnson: Thank you so much. And I don't want anybody who's not actually a financial advisor to click away and turn this off, if you will, because what we're going to make sure to do today, thanks to Josh filling me in, is work trust, communication, building loyalty, connection, communication, all of that stuff. It's industry agnostic, right? It doesn't matter if we're talking about the financial industry, the tech industry, the real estate industry, any industry, communication connection, building trust is an overarching goal. Julie Johnson: So please stick around and listen because we'll be dropping some really amazing nuggets of information that I promise you'll be able to implement to improve your communication, building trust, all that good stuff, no matter how it applies to your life. So I just kind of wanted to make sure to plug that in the beginning. Josh St. Laurent: Yes, absolutely. So let's dive right into it. I mean, you're absolutely right. It is industry agnostic, right? People do business with other people that they know, like, and trust. So what's the foundation of that? For someone listening who maybe is having a hard time connecting with people, they have this great value proposition, but something is in the communication. Where do you start with someone like that? Julie Johnson: And all the work that I do, Josh, and I've been very honored to get to work with thousands of professionals, executives, what have you. And the biggest challenge that happens is often we start with ourselves. We start by talking about the things that we provide, the services that we provide, the products that we sell, the firm that we represent, right? And at the end of the day, it's kind of like going to the doctor and the doctor is talking to you about a bunch of different medications without the doctor having any clue about what's going on for you, right? So we have to always start with what I call discovery. And it's a matter of asking questions, being curious about the people that you're speaking with. And this is professionally and personally, right? So it's always being curious and asking them the questions that will resonate with them, that will make them feel heard, that will build that automatic trust. And anybody listening who wants, okay, what does that, what do those discovery questions look like? Julie Johnson: Well, let me know. Shoot me an email. I'd be happy to send you, I've got a big old list. And again, it does, it's not just financial, right? It's just building trust with people. The best way to start is by asking about them. A lot of times I talk to business professionals and I'm like the best way to start with start building a relationship with a prospect or a peer is to pretend like you're meeting a friend for coffee. You sit, how are you doing? What's going on for you? Tell me about your family. Tell me about your past. People love talking about themselves, right? I mean, it's statistically proven. It gets the dopamine in our brain going. You know, as long as you read their body language and, you know, you don't want to like all the sudden ask them all these personal questions. Julie Johnson: They're like, okay, wait a minute. I don't even know you. But what you can do is just, you know, start getting to know them and that just allows everyone to relax. It allows everyone's stress levels to go down when you just, when you show true authentic interest in another person, they're like, okay, this doesn't feel like a sales call. This doesn't feel like that I'm going to be pitched on something. It's just a conversation to get to know each other. And that just enables people to again, relax, feel connected, feel engaged, want to speak with you. That's the best way I can recommend any conversation start. Josh St. Laurent: Yeah, that's so true. And it makes such a difference. Like the example for whatever reason that's popping into my head is like a real estate professional. You know, I interviewed so many to buy the house that we're in now and so many of them, you know, how about a little clustered they give you, you know, and it's just, well, how many square footer are you looking for in bedrooms? And there was no discovery process to really get to know me. The realtor that I ultimately chose, there was a discovery process. It's like, okay, why are you buying this house? What is the long-term goal? Because that's so important in the beginning, I think especially for, you know, like a service based industry. And then I think I can use myself as like the bad example, right? Because I've made all the mistakes under the sun as an advisor, like early on, what you're describing as trying to overshare, you know, all these technical terms that you know. Like it's an easy trap to fall into. So how do you avoid that, you know, as someone who is proud of, hey, I'm in this industry, I've spent 10 years learning all this information. I really, I know I have a lot of value. How do you, I want to say, restrain yourself, but how do you hold that reflex in and really focus on this, you know, discovery phase? Julie Johnson: Yeah. When you say, restrain yourself, that's not a bad term because it's really spot on. If you just always make sure that you start with the other person and then allow, you know, five or 10 minutes at the end of the conversation, because if and when you're getting to know the other person and you're truly listening, then you're able to do a really good job and customize the messaging about your services, your firm to align with what they've shared with you, right? So if you don't start with the discovery, you don't know what they want. And therefore you're just spitting out, you know, generic stuff that they may not care about. They may not care about that it's the biggest, great, priced house in the neighborhood to, you know, to talk about real estate. They may be like, okay, I care way more that it's near great schools or I care way more that it has, you know, a huge big backyard. Julie Johnson: And if you don't ask the people, what do you want from the place that you live, then you are going to just be wasting time. And more importantly, you're going to be wasting their time. And probably talking your way out of an opportunity. So it is restrained in getting to know them, putting your brain in discovery mode and saying, okay, what are they, what are they telling me that I can then use to connect with them during the conversation during the opportunity when I'm able to share how I shine our company shines. When you learn how to listen first, then the process of connecting and engaging and hopefully closing them and bringing them in as a client, the opportunity and your ratio goes up exponentially. It does work. I promise. It's worked for 20 years and it's working even more now, Josh. You know, as you know, as, as more women are in charge of their own money, as younger people are growing their own wealth and in charge of their own spending, younger people statistically speaking, I'm kind of a statistic stork, but statistically speaking, younger people and women care far more about the feeling, the experience than products because, you know, they're cool. Julie Johnson: I mean, yeah, the cool factor is great, but again, it has to connect with them on a more emotional level for it to really shine through. Josh St. Laurent: Yeah, I totally agree. What's coming into mind for me is like tracking in my own meetings, how much I'm talking versus how much they're talking. You mentioned being sort of a statistics nerd, I totally guilty of that. And so for people who are listening who, you know, live in spreadsheets and they love the numbers, is there a formula? Right. We've been talking about the discovery phase and you're really hearing them and getting to know them on a deeper level. What comes next is there a formula that you should be keeping in the back of your mind of how much should I be talking versus them? What comes after discovery? I don't want this meeting to end and totally miss my opportunity to talk about, you know, my stuff. Josh St. Laurent: How does someone think about this overall structure of a meeting and how they communicate? Julie Johnson: I love that. So it graduates and it changes the sort of ratio changes dependent upon the length of the relationship. Number one, number two, the, really the goal of the relationship, not only in your mind, but in the client or prospects mind, right? If they're there to hear about the house, talk to them about the house, right? So the point is the initial one or two meetings until you feel and sense, okay, they're engaged, their body language is showing that they're paying attention. The eye contact is good. They're asking questions. Those are all great ways to gauge that they are engaged with you and they're listening and that you've got their attention. If they're not listening to you, they're walking away while you're walking through the house and again, we're just using the, the house as a metaphor, I guess. Julie Johnson: But if they're walking away from you or they're not really looking at you or they're not really paying attention, ask more questions because probably you've missed something, okay? So keep up with the discovery until you feel that you have them engaged and connected. So to answer your question more from a statistical standpoint, I would say the first meeting, two meetings until you again, really feel like you've had a chance to get to know them. Literally the discovery and them talking should take up at least 60, 70, even 80% of your total time together. And I'm not kidding. And in so many conversations, it is literally the opposite. There's so many statistics and studies out there that show that the salesperson, the whomever, typically does 80% of the talking. And that's such a huge mistake, right? Then as the relationships change, as they grow and as you have a sense of what are they looking for? Julie Johnson: Why? And how are they going to be emotionally engaged in whatever it is and let's just stick with the house metaphor? You know, it has a beautiful playroom for their kids. It has, you know, maybe if they have an older mom that they want to have lived with them, it has a great space for the mom. And all of those things are things that, you have to find out and then you have to focus on in cater to. And then when you feel like you've got that aligned, you can do more of the talking because you can say, here's what I've heard from you as far as what you're looking for. Number one, confirm your right, right? Don't assume you're right. It, you know, am I correct in what I've heard? Am I missing anything and let them really, you know, make them feel like they are open and you want them to engage in the conversation by saying, hey, I'm here for you. Julie Johnson: We are here to make sure that you are getting the best house for you, that you are getting the best whatever it is for you. By saying that, it opens up the engagement. It makes it much more reciprocal and it gives them the opening and it makes them feel safe and relaxed to ask you questions. If you don't, it's that irony is sometimes if you don't give them, quote unquote, permission to ask you questions, some people may feel like they can't or they feel anxiety or they feel awkward or they feel like they should know, right? And so many people don't know what they don't know, but they don't want to look stupid so they may not ask. So the more you as a professional enable them to say, hey, I'm not really even sure what I'm supposed to be asking you, you know, say that is totally fine. Julie Johnson: That's what I'm here for. You know, I want to be here to support any questions, any thoughts. So I'm not giving you a really specific answer, but it does. It number one, it varies. Number two, it matters on the longevity of the relationship. How well you've gotten to know them. But if you're ever feeling that they're not engaged with you, stop talking, start asking questions. Josh St. Laurent: Yeah, it's such an important point, like tying it back to something that they said was a huge learning lesson for me. I think about how something they say in meeting three to your point, you know, it might take a couple hours or a couple meetings for them to trust you enough to tell you something that changes the entire dynamic. I mean, I know as a financial advisor, sometimes people say things and it's like, wow, like that just changed everything that I was thinking about, you know, oh, you want to move and be closer to kids. Well, geez, you know, we've been looking at everything in this state. You know, now let's kind of start fresh, but that's important. And sometimes the most important thing and they don't, you know, let that out until meeting three. So I want to throw a throw a curve ball into this. How important is context? Because something that I've noticed, like you mentioned, like 80%, you know, listening, basically, I've been shooting for 90, I've sort of gamified it, right? And it's become this fun thing where it's like, how little can I talk and how much can I listen? I think the, I don't want to say the exception, but I've noticed, like, let's, I'm going to use the example of like networking events, totally different dynamic, right? You're probably not offering anything, you know, in that, in that networking meeting, it's strictly a discovery session to keep using kind of that language. Josh St. Laurent: So how does that change the context? What should we be doing differently in that context versus someone who jumped on your calendar, you know, to ask about your services? How is that different? Julie Johnson: Such a good question. Things that I personally make sure to do before going to networking meetings or say conferences, right? I research who's going to be there as much as we know, right? So I do the best I can to look at the attendee or registrant list to do, because that's my ability to do due diligence, right? And say, ooh, I want to make sure to meet this person. I want to make sure to meet this person, right? I want to realize that opportunity. Second, what's the purpose of the networking meeting? What's the purpose of the conference? Dependent upon that, you adjust how you're going to initiate conversations with people to be specific, you know, if there's other finance, FPA members listening to this, the way that I go into the FPA next-gen conference is different because the FPA next-gen conference, and for those who don't know, it's people who I incorrect me if I'm wrong, you know this better than I do. Julie Johnson: But I believe it's people who have been in the financial industry for less than, you know, five years, eight years, something like that. So they're relatively newer to the industry. Why does that matter? FPA next-gen, these younger people are sponges. They are excited. They want to learn stuff. And they have the energy and it's just, it's one of my favorites. So any younger conferences that cater more to younger audiences? I love, I have to say more because again, it's, the information is nuanced. The energy is huge. The networking is huge. The collaboration is huge. So more specifically, I go in wanting to talk and be a source of information at these younger people conferences because that's what they want from me. Typically is, okay, Julie, you know, here's an experience I'm going through right now. Can you give me some ideas? How do you support? Julie Johnson: And so I'm just ready to be there as a source, right? I know they know how to find me. They know how to Google my bio. They know how to see what I'm doing. If they do say, Julie, what do you do? I have a 60-second canned but customized elevator pitch. And it's really not a pitch. It's more, here's what I do to provide solutions to other people's challenges. As an example, for advisors to be specific, a lot of advisors that I'm talking to are not building the relationships with existing clients on a deeper level because they don't know how to build the trust. They don't know how, it feels weird, it feels awkward, it feels, you know, just not in their comfort zone. So we talk about, again, when you start meeting and having conversations with clients, like you're meeting a friend for a cup of coffee, it just makes everybody relax. Julie Johnson: You're not there to sell them anything. You're there to hear what's going on for them. And if you need, you know, at the end of the day, you want, you need to talk about market performance or you want to talk about their portfolio performance. Of course, you're going to do that, but allow maybe five minutes to do that because that's really all it takes. And the other thing too is the other solution that I provide to people is by asking, this is another really important point. The more you ask for feedback from clients, the more you open the conversation to be reciprocal, the more you build trust. And that opens the opportunity to ask for referrals exponentially. So again, I'm a little off topic as far as how do you handle a networking meeting. But that's to, I wanted to give an example of, again, the two biggest things, two of the biggest things that I forced that I see advisors struggling with are going deeper with existing clients and then building the authentic, easy conversation asking about feedback or things going well, great, is there anyone out there that you feel, you know, friends, family? Julie Johnson: That aren't receiving the support that they want, that they need. Do they have a person that can go to to ask questions? If not, I would love to have the opportunity to speak with them just to make sure they are feeling supported. So that's my elevator thing, right? Everyone needs to come up with their elevator thing. And it's, again, it needs to be short. It needs to be to the point, not product, not salesy, and it needs to fill real true niche as far as a solution or multiple solutions for what the audience, so the networking event, who is the audience at the networking event? What are the pain points they're experiencing? When you customize your elevator story to provide solutions to what you think, they might be struggling with. That was a very roundabout answer, but it really is all, it's often all about them, whomever them is. Julie Johnson: And then when they ask you and you have the opportunity to answer, you have something that's authentic, so it doesn't feel scripted or salesy and provides solutions. Josh St. Laurent: Yeah, so many good things to touch upon there, though. I mean, have a plan was one of the key things and consider your audience. So I think about, like in my own life, you know, sometimes there's a conference I go to and like, I can offer value, maybe a next-gen conference, right? People are like, what do I do after my CFP? The way that I'm going to, I don't want to say pitch, but my script that I'm going to have, the way I'm going to approach people like that is going to be very different than a conference I go to where everyone is like my hero or professor and people I've learned from. And I'm there to soak up information. Josh St. Laurent: It's totally different. So I like that context, really. And it's just, it's always so it's like to keep it so it's not exhaustive. You have a foundational script that's what you do, right? But then you customize it again so that you're able to make it very personal and real for whom ever the audience is the chicken and goes beat too. Josh St. Laurent: So true. I think about networking meetings that I go to that are, you know, a mix of people from the community, not financial planning related. I feel like when I go into those saying, oh, I'm going to get a client or, you know, I'm going to talk to three people about what I do. The outcome is not typically what I had hoped for, right? Like I have had much more success in my career going into these networking meetings saying I'm going to make friends or I'm going to find people with similar interests. Josh St. Laurent: That is always a better formula for success. Like just, you know, now being in Tahoe, you know, I've had meetings where I go in and I say, I'm going to try to see if, you know, anyone wants to meet with me. I'm going to tell them what I do and usually walk away, you know, with people sort of turned off about what I do versus, you know, you go into those and you just say, well, who else is a snowboarder here? And I've gotten far more clients on a chairlift than I have, you know, at the actual networking meeting. So I think that's such an interesting concept. Julie Johnson: Exactly correct. And it just feels better, too, doesn't it? Don't you, you leave the meeting feeling pumped up, not drained because you've met with people in an authentic way. So, you know, and you, the best, the best networking meetings, you know, as I built the business that I have now. Julie Johnson: I always started by saying, how can I help you? You know, here's what I have to offer, but I want to listen to what's going on for you and then share with you how I think maybe if it makes sense eventually, how I could potentially help you. But the most important thing I want to get out of our time together is learning about you, learning about your family, learning about what's going on for you. You can literally see people's faces relax, people's shoulders relax, they smile. And you know, the eye contact is there. Just the body language is saying, yes, I'm into this. So it just, it's night and day different in my humble opinion. And yeah, so is, do we need to accomplish sales? Of course we do, right? But there are ways to do so that feel good, that feel authentic, where you go into, you know, and I call it the sort of the easy clothes, if you will. Julie Johnson: You know, so, and you always follow up with a next action item. This has been such a fabulous conversation. When can we talk again? You know, I'd love to get on each other's calendars. One mistake that I used to make all the time, that I have, that I still make sometimes, but I would love to share this with people. Rather than giving your connection information to somebody else, get theirs. So often I'd be like, here's my card, or you know, here, let's connect, you know, one another thing that you can do is, hey, let's, can we connect on LinkedIn? And you get there, you know, LinkedIn connection. Or hey, can I just type in your email address into my phone? And then you have the ability to follow up with them. You're not waiting or reliant on them following up with you. It took me a way too long to figure that out. Julie Johnson: And again, it's, you know, you're excited, right? It's not, hey, I'm going to, you know, sell you. It's, I'm excited to get to know you and, you know, talk more type thing. Josh St. Laurent: I couldn't agree more. How much more important is that in a field like financial advising or, you know, if you're a specialist doctor, like your field is something that is highly technical, something that is overwhelming to them, how much more important is that concept for someone like that and approaching them in a way where you're not just throwing all this jargon at them? Julie Johnson: 100% important because if the timing's not right for them or for whatever reason, it is just super important to get them to feel relaxed. And if you go and you all the sudden fire hose on them, they're going to be like, I don't want to talk to this person. Julie Johnson: You know, this was way too intense. And you know, whether I need to hear what they're saying or not, right? Even if it is, okay, these are solutions that you need. If they're not in the right place to listen, they're not in the right place to absorb what you're telling them or you haven't gained their trust yet, they're not going to hear you and they're not going to want to talk to you. So you've got to gain the trust first for sure. Josh St. Laurent: That makes sense. Are there common mistakes that you see? You know, I don't want to oversimplify here. I know we've been kind of touching upon all along, like, you know, diving into your pitch too early, not getting to know the person, not listening enough. Like we've touched upon some of the things. Are there simple things that people can keep an eye or an ear out for in their conversations where it says replace this with this? Julie Johnson: Yeah, absolutely. Say the word I rarely say the word you and ask questions predominantly. And just again, I can't stress it enough. I know I sound like a broken record, but the more you are curious about what's going on for the other person, the relationships will happen. The irony is when you build a trusting relationship with another person, those relationships will happen faster than if you all the sudden just, you know, excuse the expression vomit all over them about your products, your sales, your company. Julie Johnson: So for better or worse, it does take time and experience to some degree, right? It takes time to figure out how to read people. It takes time to figure out how to get, you know, figure out how to follow up with them. And that's something that I do for my clients. But it's almost counterintuitive. You think, how are they going to want to talk to me or work with me if they don't know what I do? Julie Johnson: How are they going to want to talk to me or work with me if they don't know the products that I represent, you know, or, you know, what have you. And actually again, and again, you build the trust, you build a relationship, it will organically happen. And it just is better long term. It is better because they trust you. They know that you don't have some hidden agenda because people that know that you have an hidden agenda, they're going to avoid talking with you. They're going to avoid working with you. And people, a lot of people are really good at smelling BS, right? So you just, no matter what, you always want to be authentic and to show up is yourself. Julie Johnson: And if you're not quite sure what that is or how that looks, that's something to spend some time on. And get a coach, get somebody, talk to peers, talk to other people who can support you to figure that out. Because that, figuring out who you are, how you want to show up for people. So it feels good for you. And it solves a purpose for them, getting to know that. And chances are it'll change in time. I have nose in my 25 years experience. I have changed immensely, hopefully for the better, maybe not completely. I'm probably less patient. But we just have to evolve as our world evolves, as the people we work with evolves. And that's okay. It's smart. Julie Johnson: You know, always be reading, always be curious, always be figuring out, okay, what does this person need for me? Josh St. Laurent: I want to piggyback on that and talk about these concepts are universal in the sense that you should always be doing discovery, always be trying to get to know people on a deeper level. You mentioned body language earlier in the call, I'm fascinated by like nonverbal communication. What are they not saying? Are there clues that you should look out for to maybe identify someone that you know? You know what? This maybe isn't a good fit. Maybe they don't align with my values or this wouldn't be a good client for XYZ reasons. Are there things that you should look for to kind of clue you into, you know, hey, maybe this conversation doesn't need to go any deeper? Julie Johnson: Yeah, love that question. And it does go straight in line with not every client is a good client for you. And that's okay, right? So I, when we were hit with COVID, I had to basically recreate my business because I was a public speaker predominantly and predominantly tied to the wirehouse space. And both of those things got yanked from underneath me hard and fast. So I had to recreate and what I did as I created, I did a lot of research and I created how to do Zoom meetings with clients and prospects to really still build the trust and connect with them. Julie Johnson: So I'm going to start with virtual things because people are like, how do you do, you know, how do you tell body language over Zoom? How do you even tell quote unquote body language or nonverbal communication over the phone? It's possible. Listen to cadence, meaning the speed of the conversation, the speed of how they're speaking. Listen to the variation in the tone of their voice. If it's monotone, you've lost them, right? Are they asking questions or are you doing all the talking? Okay. Zoom. I contact. And I tell you can kind of not tell because not everybody knows where to look. So it looks like they're looking at you in the eye. So don't necessarily, you know, use eye contact per se. However, if they're looking down, right? Or if they're looking away, if they're looking, you know, just if they feel like they're engaged. Julie Johnson: And if you can tell that they're engaged, then their their eyes are probably not darting around. They're focused. They're listening and they're asking questions. Are they probably sitting up? Yes. Are they probably leaning in? Are they leaning toward the computer? Yes. And if they're not doing any of those things, if they feel just completely disconnected and disengaged, stop. Start asking them questions. Get them back in. So much. And like you said, constant discovery matters so much because if you think okay, I've done, you know, the first two meetings we've done really deep discovery and they're a client now. So I don't have to do discovery anymore. Wrong. Keep doing discovery. Keep asking questions because like you said, they will they don't know what they don't know. They don't know necessarily what you want them to say or what you need them to say to help you do your job better. Julie Johnson: So the more you get them talking and really listen, the more you will hear these little golden nuggets of information that they may not even realize are important to you. So it's again, it is experience, but it all comes back to asking the best questions and then making sure you're paying attention, especially if they're not engaged. If the body language is just sterile and, you know, low energy and what have you and maybe they're having a crappy day and that's okay. But there's never a bad time to check in and say, hey, is this conversation going the way you hoped it would? Maybe you're not sure. Is there anything that we're not talking about that you wish we would be talking about? Anything, right? And they'll be like, oh, okay, that's interesting. That's different because you know, as your blank professional, I'm not doing my job if I'm not understanding your needs. Julie Johnson: I'm not doing my job if I'm not alleviating your stress. I'm not doing my job if I'm not blank. And I'm reliant upon our reciprocal conversation, me getting to know you in order to know that I am serving you the best way I can and the best way you need and want me to. It is okay to be that vulnerable. That doesn't sound bad. It doesn't make you sound dumb at all. It makes you sound like you truly care, right? So it's that authenticity, even being a little bit vulnerable. Okay, I'm sensing maybe you're not totally engaged in this conversation. What am I doing wrong? Right? Put it back on you. What am I doing wrong? How can I be helping more? What's going on for you right now? Right? Just asking, again, having coffee with a friend, the more you're real with whomever you're speaking to within reason, right? Julie Johnson: Again, an experience helps us to know how real to be and how professional to be. I always say it's better to err on the side of being more, more vulnerable. Do you think about what you say before you say it? Absolutely. This is probably just very unique to financial advisors, but I think back to when I was a new CFP and I had this brand new, shiny structure of meetings that I needed to take people through. And I was very meticulous to say next we need to talk about taxes and then we're going to talk about retirement and that context versus what have I miss and let them drive. I mean, it's night and day. It's hard to even compare. And again, this is probably specific more towards like service related jobs or financial advisors, but how important is it when you transition from discovery to the next stage in your meeting to ask permission? Julie Johnson: Because a lot of times if clients don't know where you're going next, they have exhausted everything they need to tell you from a discovery standpoint. They're ready to move forward. I think saying here's our next step versus is it okay if I talk about X next? I think those are very different things. So could you talk about maybe like asking permission to go to the next stage and what that sounds like? Julie Johnson: Josh, that was absolutely perfect. Absolutely perfect. I love that. And so we often, you know, again, regardless of whatever profession we're in when we're speaking with clients or prospects, we have an agenda. We do, right? So the first thing I often encourage people that I speak with or talk, work with, if it's appropriate and it's a agenda type or a topic type meeting, send it ahead of time. This is what I'd like to talk about, but what matters more is what do you want to talk about and ask them to send that back with their comments and their thoughts because if they have something going on for them and you have an astom and you have your own agenda and you don't know what's going on for them, man, if you missed out, you've blown a trust factor there, right? Julie Johnson: Number one, number two, when we're going on in hour, in our agenda, okay. So I think we've, you know, touched on and talked about all of the tax stuff. Is there anything tax related that we haven't touched on? No, okay, great. I'd love to move on to your required minimum distribution or I'd love to move on to, you know, you want to start saving for your child's college or your retirement or, you know, whatever it is, right? I'd love to move on to that. Is that where you'd like to go next? To kind of transition them so you're not jumping from one subject to another subject and they're like, whoa, perfect idea. And putting it like you're asking for permission, again, this is their meeting, right? It's not my meeting. It's their meeting. So the more we keep that in mind, the better the better the meetings will go, period. Julie Johnson: You know, you are there to service them, to support them, to make sure that they're getting whatever it is they need from you. And so, yeah, I love how you put that. I've been fascinated learning about reflective listening. I kind of went through this journey of a comfortable circle where I'm teaching the students now at Golden Gate, but there's this misconception that if you don't ask these pointed questions, you're not going to get the information. We do this exercise with the students where you're supposed to ask these 10 questions about someone's job to get this information. So you do that. And then you do the exercise again where you don't ask any of the questions, you're just reflecting back to them, asking open-ended questions. And it is amazing. You get all the same information a lot of times in less time. And people don't think that. Josh St. Laurent: They'll write in the discussion boards ahead of the exercise. Oh, I don't know. I might get half of it. You know, I'm going to have to ask a couple pointed questions. It's just not the case. So I would implore people to try that. Yeah, I just want to segue into the more personal questions for you. I'm very curious to hear your answers. These are kind of the big three that I house everyone towards the end. And so for anyone wondering, for you specifically, Julie, what is living a wealthy life look like for you? Julie Johnson: So, and I loved this question because it is such a personal, you know, there's no right or wrong answer. And I think that took age to figure that out. I spent my 20s and 30s carrying a great deal about keeping us older generations, keeping up with the Joneses. But what the expression means is, do you have the nice car? Do you have the nice house? Do you have the nice clothes? You know, basically being wealthy does not mean. And I know this may sound a little cliche, but I'm going to say it anyway. Being wealthy does not necessarily have anything to do with money, right? Julie Johnson: Being wealthy does not necessarily have to do with anything. What our bank balances look like. What our, say, you know, investments look like. What our house are car. In time I have realized for me, it is the opportunity to spend time real time with my family and my friends and travel. I love, love, love to travel and I'll be very honest. I live in a relatively modest home because I don't want to be house poor. I didn't want to be, you know, stuck, not traveling, not spending time or money on people that I care about because I have to pay this huge mortgage. That's what wealthy looks like for me, but it took me 25 years to get here and letting go of a lot of ego, right? A lot of it for me came down to ego. I would encourage and invite everyone to ask that question for themselves. And again, there's no right or wrong answer. It's what's best for you and what's best for your family. And people will argue and say, no, you need to do it this way. You need to do it that way. You need to own this. You need to own that, you know, whatever. It's up to you to choose. Period. I'm not going to have an evo, but you know, being 53 years old enables you to not care so much about what other people think. As long as the people I love are happy and taking care of. Josh St. Laurent: Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of people come to that conclusion, but we're all on a different journey, you know, for some people it's, you know, they're 94 in hospice and they say, man, if I could do it all over again, you know, I wouldn't care so much about the corporate job and work in 60 hours. And some people figure it out in their 30s, you know, and I think that the sooner that you realize that the more of a difference in living your authentic life and kind of designing your ideal life can happen, but the more you're tied to chasing like the things, you know, I think that gets them in all of our way. The world that we live in with constant marketing and advertising telling us we need the shiny things and social media. So I really like that. So to piggyback off of that, if you could give one message to someone working to gain financial freedom who isn't there yet, what would it be? Julie Johnson: It's saving a little bit all the time. 50 bucks a month, you know, $100 a month as much as you can. And unfortunately, well, some people may say having to live with a budget is not unfortunate. It's just smart. As long as you allow yourself, we all are allowed to celebrate, right? We all should be allowed and allow ourselves to spend the money on the things that make us feel good and spend the money on the things that make our families feel good, right? But we can do within reason. It doesn't have to be a boatload of money. It could even just be time. It can be, let's go to lunch, right? So figuring out for you and for the people you love, what matters most. But as much as you can or and as much as you can, do determine a budget that works for you and your family. And then as early as you can and as consistently as you can save something every month, just put it away and forget about it. That is honestly something that saves me time and time again. Josh St. Laurent: Yeah, yeah, it's spot on. I mean, just building that habit of saving is something that could be so powerful for so many people. There's so many programs, you know, that pay through payroll, right? You just move 50 bucks from every paycheck into a savings account and it just happens. So you don't have to be the person to technically do it. It's done for you. And then you don't even miss the money because it's not in your checking account, right? Just an idea. Absolutely. No, that's something that we focus on a lot with people is like take the thinking out of it. You know, if you can automate it, automate it, make it easy on yourself. We all want everything that's easy. We don't want to do things that are hard. So if you can make it simple, you know, even better. So for the person listening who's like, oh, I like that idea. I have payroll. I can take $50 out of every paycheck and put it into a savings account. That kind of segues us into our next question. Josh St. Laurent: So if you only had $1,000 and you were starting over, what would be the first thing you would do with that money? Julie Johnson: So this is probably really boring, but it, you know, I was a financial advisor for 15 years. I would say pay off your highest interest rate debt, right? So if you have, you know, a credit card that's, you know, 15, 20 plus percent pay the $1,000 towards that, you know, assuming obviously the mortgages paid, the bills are paid. If it's $1,000 that's extra, pay it toward high interest debt. Really boring, but that's what I would do. Josh St. Laurent: No, it's prudent though, and it's important. And for a lot of people, that's the case. So for someone listening who wants to connect with you, we're going to drop, you know, all your socials in the show notes, but where is your preferred place for people to go and connect with you? Julie Johnson: Honestly, I love either LinkedIn, which I'm sure you have the link. So LinkedIn, connect with me, send me a message or my email. I love, love, love hearing from people via email, but don't hesitate to email me anything I can do to support people, answer questions, you know, I, it's what fulfills me is helping other people. So for a short reach out, please. Definitely do. Josh St. Laurent: Yes. So I'll steal one of your lines from earlier in the show. What have we missed? What did you want to talk about that I haven't asked you? Julie Johnson: You know, I think probably the biggest takeaway from life for me has been, you know, and if you and your gut know that what you, how you are showing up and what services, what human connection, whatever you are providing to people professionally and or personally, if you know in your gut that that's your authentic self and that's what they need and want from you, even if other people in your sphere, in your professional or personal circle or like that's just weird or that's wrong. Julie Johnson: Have the courage, have, you know, the guts to say, you know what, I'm good. I know, you know, this feels right for me. This feels right for the people that I care about. This feels right for the people that I work with. So thank you for your opinion, but I'm good. And just being able to own your own decisions as an example, just briefly, for 15 years as a financial advisor, I was told, Julie, this is business, it's not personal. And very senior, very successful people who I worked with and for were like doing move on. You're spending too much time with clients, you're spending too much time talking to people. We need to get more products in and we need to sell more and we need to do more of this that and the other thing. And most of the time I would smile, you know, again, this is 25 years ago, I would smile and nod and say, okay, and I would do that too. So I kept my job. But at the end of the day, the relationship stuff was always there. And I'm so thrilled that the relationship side of things is becoming more and more predominant and more and more welcomed and wanted in people's conversations. So you know, if you happen to work for somebody or work with somebody where they're just like, you know, push the products, push the this, whatever, do what you need to do so you don't get fired, but also do what feels right for you. I guess that's probably my biggest takeaway. Josh St. Laurent: Hey, man, I love that. That's perfect. I won't add anything to that. I just want to thank you for being here. Julie Johnson: This has been really fun. Thank you so much, Josh. And thanks for everybody who's listening. Josh St. Laurent: Appreciate it so much. Definitely. This has been the wealth in yourself podcast where we help people to design their ideal life and take control of their time and money. Josh St. Laurent: Our guest today was Julie Johnson. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week. The wealth in yourself podcast is hosted by me, Josh St. Loren, an edited and produced by Ray Haycraft. To learn more about how to make your money work for you, visit us at www.wealthinyourself.com and connect with us on all social media at Wealth in Yourself. This podcast is educational in nature and is not meant to be investment advice. Please do not construe anything said to be advice. And the opinions of the guests may or may not represent the opinions of wealth in yourself. This podcast and the information presented are separate from my employment at Golden Gate University. Still, they are part of my mission to make no cost financial knowledge more accessible. If you like the show, please take a moment to leave us a review. We read all of your feedback and we want to make sure we cover the topics that matter most. Josh St. Laurent: If you have a specific subject you'd like us to explore or a guest you'd love to hear interviewed, don't hesitate to shoot us a direct message. And as always, thanks for listening.